Today I have the distinct pleasure of sharing a conversation I had with a classmate at William Jessup University, Anne through email. So you have to excuse the grammar. Anne it is great to have you here as a guest on Dethroned By Grace…
Anne: Steve, in class you were telling us about the Sunday school worker who did things mostly because he had done them for so long, he didn't see a reason to stop. And as I'm going through this whole learning process at school AND at work, when you shared this story, my mind went to an experience that we had at work.
So here are my thoughts: What is the "goal" of the Christian church? Isn't it--or shouldn't it be--to reach the lost? If that is so, then maybe it would be worth listing the "activities" or "things" that we are doing in our churches as part of our daily routine. Those activities that will help us to achieve our goal - of reaching the lost - well, we should keep those activities in place. But those activities that do NOTHING for reaching the lost, well, then maybe we should leave them behind. (For example, placing the names of long time members on a bulletin board?)
Anyway - those are my thoughts around that and I just thought I'd take a moment to share them with you - for whatever it's worth.
Steve: I think you have to look at church through several verses...
Luk 4:18-19 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and the regaining of sight to the blind, to set free those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
Mat 22:37-39 Jesus said to him, " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. The second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
Mat 28:18-20 Then Jesus came up and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
Eph 4:11-14 It was he who gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, that is, to build up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the
Son of God, a mature person, attaining to the measure of Christ's full stature. So we are no longer to be children, tossed back and forth by waves and carried about by every wind of teaching by the trickery of people who craftily carry out their deceitful schemes. But practicing the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into Christ, who is the head.
If you look at these verses as the core thought, there emerges the idea of the 'whole person' in Christ. We want people to be 'Christ Centered'....'To know Christ and to make Christ know'...If I teach you how to draw nearer to Christ through worship, through discipleship, and service...from a transformed heart, one transformed by the love of Christ in your life...you will want to tell others. You will be like the all the others in the Bible who where told 'don't tell' and told everyone. You will not be able to help yourself.
The problem is I think we have to balance out the development of the person--scripture, prayer, fellowship first...before someone can effectively witness. Also I think there has to be a place for service, somewhere--to do something for someone else without payment...just to give of yourself.
I have the vision, just not the plan yet to implement. If I was to start a church I would go along these line, but I have to work within the frame work of an existing church. Which it will work, just has to be done very slowly and patiently, relying on God's timing.
So to answer your question you cannot just concentrate on just reaching people for Christ solely...you have to bring people into the maturity of Christ also, for unity. This is a life long
process. So you would want to get rid of the things that are just 'window dressing' and keep the things that lead people to a Christ Centered life.
There you go Anne...thanks for helping me work on my outline for the final.
Let me know what you think...
Anne: Steve - very true - you make very good points. Absolutely - we need to think 'holistically'(?). It's getting the people to leave those window dressings behind that will be the challenging part. Indeed - it looks as though you've got a great outline for your paper!! Lucky you! :)
Anne: and another thing - I don't see why we need to have a philosophy of ministry that says, "I will reach the....youth/old/poor/rich...." At least, that's what I think Mike is sort of looking for, no? When we look at Jesus' ministry, He did, just as you show below - He focused on 'all who are lost'. So I think I'm going to be challenged to say, "My philosophy of ministry is...the poor/kids/etc." I think that I'd like my philosophy to match that of Christ.
What are your thoughts on that?
Steve: Don't you think Christ came for all people...rich/poor/young/old...Jesus talked to the rich young ruler...the rich choose to reject Jesus.
Joh 1:29 On the next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
Joh 3:16 For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
Gal 6:14 But may I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
1Ti 2:4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the Knowledge of the truth.
The whole counsel of God says we are to try and reach everyone...
Anne: YES!! That's EXACTLY my point!!! So when we talk about, "What's your philosophy of ministry?", how can we say ANYTHING BUT, "my philosophy will be that which Jesus did!"
I guess my question is - I really need clarification for the final - is Mike (our professor) expecting us to say something more like, "My philosophy will be to reach the rich people or Rocklin/Roseville, and here's how I'm going to do it....."???
Thanks for all of the Bible verses by the way - saves me a whole lot of look up!
But seriously though, since I missed the first night of class, can you tell me what Mike's expecting for that particular paper?
Steve: No you need to root it in scripture...how can we have a Christian ministry and not have it come from the Bible...Your philosophy should be based in Scripture and what is our current culture...how would you address the felt needs of those around you...
Anne: I had planned on writing my paper based on what the scripture says that ministry should look like.
Are you saying then that "philosophy of ministry" is "method" NOT "message"?
I guess my confusion comes from a class discussion that we had around Joyce Meyers and Joel Osteen. What I heard Mike say was, "Joyce talks about wealth -that's HER P.O.M. Joel DOESN'T talk about sin - that's HIS P.O.M." So what I took away from that class discussion is that "P.O.M" is "who" you reach.
But what I hear YOU saying is "how" you reach - would that be correct?
Thanks for helping me clarify this - really - I'm not as dense as I sound right now.
Steve: You're good...it is method not message....we have to be based in scripture or it will not work for the kingdom. It might tickle ears...but will the message change lives, transform hearts. I'm preaching...I should blog this conversation...it's good stuff...
Do I have your permission?
Anne: Do you really need to ask? Please! Go ahead! But tell me again where I go to read your blog?
So would you agree or disagree then, that:
If we are all ministers of the Gospel, then we should ALL have a philosophy of ministry. I would suggest that there doesn't always need to be one "method". I minister to the people inside my home. I go through Starbucks drive through and tell the girl at the window that Jesus loves her. She looks at me funny, but I don't care! I serve in my church in the neighborhood outreach and tell them too that Jesus loves them.
Would then "Philosophy of Ministry" really mean being Kingdom minded? It's asking ourselves, 'how will my words & actions today effect the Kingdom'. As Toby Mac says, "May your Kingdom be what wakes us up and what lays us down."
Your thoughts?
Steve: Love it...I think your on message! Your moving me Anne...your right, your philosophy of ministry would be used by you to reach the people around you. You said it much better than me...and you quoted Toby Mac...right on...
Pastorsteven.blogspot.com
Anne: SWEET!! We've got some good content for our papers then, right?! Yeah!
Thanks for helping me work through this!
Steve: Thank you for helping me...
It's a little long...but some very interesting thoughts here...I would be interested what you think...
-ps
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